Isn’t it for his own good?
Lucas finally decided to respond to my rebuttal to his article about wine and sex in the Christian paradise. In his “reply”, he contended that I “decided not to answer the questions” – an accusation I find treacherous especially in the light of the fact that he used kindergarten rhetorics to try and manage to evade the brunt of my reply to his ill-informed article.
According to him, there would be wine, yeah, but no food. Imagine!
Of course! I can’t stop imagining and wondering how he came to that conclusion when I actually said in my article that “Not that we would not be able to eat or drink, yes we shall eat and drink”. My immediate reply to his article can be found here.
His latest ‘reply’ can be found here.
It seems that reading to comprehend the article of one’s opponent is not one of his otherwise “great’ talents.
I am sure he never read or decide to ignore that some of his fellow apologist mock the idea of wine in paradise. Must have to agree when we bring evidences from their Bible.
Then he should have done us a favour by listing some of my “fellow apologists” who mocked the idea of wine in paradise. I am not aware of anyone. Moreover, I’m not interested in what the ‘pastors’ in his backyards and in what the ‘evangelists’ who seem to be on the run to hunt him down with their preaching, has said to him. After all, I have Muslim friends who mistakenly holds to the unorthodox (at least from the perspective Lucas and co.) teachings of Islam.
Concerning the wine in Islamic paradise, the only thing I think the Christian apologists (and some Muslims) ‘muse’ about or ‘mock’ is the legitimacy of wine in the Islamic paradise after Allah had labelled the drink as the handiwork of Satan! (Surah 5:90). Why will the handiwork of Satan be celebrated in the Islamic paradise?
He said here on earth, hunger kills but in heaven it won’t yet there would be wine to give thanks and feast. If foods define hunger, can wine represent thirst? Okay, not water, right but a continuous feast of just wine, would it not be better with foods too? Do the angles(sic) take wine in God’s kingdom now?
This is what happens when you leave the Islamic camp and decide to come to the Christian camp posing as a “Bible scholar” just because you managed to cram some verses that you believe are “contradictory, anachronistic and full of errors”. Being a former Christian does not mean that every lewd allegations against the Christians must be valid. There is no big deal. Judas who walked and talked with Jesus Himself for about three years apostatized and the world did come to end because of that but rather he was quickly replaced and his fellow apostles sacrificed their lives to ensure that Gospel touched the four corners of the earth (demonstrating that no one is indispensable as far as the propagation of the Gospel is concerned).
Is Lucas telling us that during his years as a Christian, he is unaware of the fact that saints living in glorified bodies are different from angels? Just because both the angels and the saints commune in heaven does not means that both will share the same nature.
He said wine in Allah’s paradise sounds like a brewery, Hypocrites! That is their way, they do not see no hurt nor intoxication.
Perhaps this one of the reasons why Lucas failed to provide a link to the article he is reacting to. Is he that desperate enough to accuse me of hypocrisy such that he has to put words into my mouth? Isn’t it high time he put an end to this tradition that can be visibly traced back to Allah who is fond of putting words in the mouths of Christians and Jews? The reader can consult my article linked above and check if they can see the words that Lucas imputed to me.
After musing about the two school of thoughts concerning the identity of the “sons of God” in Genesis 6, he started asking questions:
When the Bible says angel, children of men inclusive?
But the Bible never made mention of angels in the controversial passage in Genesis 6. It rather made mention of “sons of God”. This title can be used to refer to angels and can as well be used to refer to men.
Why would angels think of sex?
It is because of this question that some Christians decided to embrace the view that the “sons of God” in Genesis 6 are men not angels. This is not to say that the opposing school of thought did not have answers to this question. Since angels can take human forms (something that had already been proven in my article linked above), then they can engage in sexual relations. It may be that it is not the pleasure of sex that attracts the angels to the women. There lies the probability that these angels were fascinated by the concept of procreation – an ability angels lacked.
Moreover, not much is known about this particular sect of angels often identified as Watchers according to the Book of Enoch. However, passages like 2 Peter 2:4-5 and Jude 4-9 made references to some angels who were locked in chains for not keeping within their proper domains. These celestial creatures are obviously different from the typical fallen angels who are still roaming the earth. The Bible does not shed much light on these special creatures. Among those who held to the “angels” view are those who believed that these angels possessed men rather than took on human flesh for themselves.
Bible says the have birth to giants? Does that not rubbish the children-of-Enos theory.
Actually, there are already giants on earth as the passage shows:
“There were giants in the earth in those days; AND ALSO AFTER THAT, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.” Genesis 6:4
Islam says angels can’t disobey God.
(i) Actually the Quran is not clear on this and in fact, can be said to be contradictory on this fact. Didn’t the Quran say:
Behold, thy Lord said TO THE ANGELS: “I am about to create man from clay: When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him.” So the angels prostrated themselves, ALL OF THEM TOGETHER: NOT SO IBLIS (SATAN): he was haughty, and became one of those who reject Faith. S. 38:71-74 Y. Ali
If Satan is a jinn, why would Satan be punished for a directive meant for angels? Perhaps unless if the jinns were actually fallen angels. In fact, this is the view that Muhammad Asad goes on to defend in the appendix III of his translation of the Quran.
Second, who cares if Islam says that angels cannot disobey God? There is no reason for us to accept the Islamic view on this matter as truth by default.
Again, if the Kingdom of God once suffered violence, how safe are those going there?
Again, here is the answer from my article linked above:
“First, let us look at Matthew 11:12
“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.” Matthew 11:12
Scholars are divided over how to translate the Greek word for “forcefully advancing” (biazetai in the Greek). It can mean:
- “to come with violence”, “to force”, “to crowd into”
- “to suffer violence” “to be treated forcefully”.
Concerning reading 1, most commentaries agree that many people are forcing their way into the kingdom of heaven. It means that as from the time of John the Baptist, people have been coming in large crowds and forcefully advancing into the Kingdom of God.
Reading 2 is also theologically tenable. The kingdom of Heaven is using force to break into the kingdom that Satan had set up into the world. I do not see any problem with that since both Islam and Christianity agreed that Satan is an enemy to the kingdom of God.
There are battles going on in the spiritual realm that we know little about. Satan and some angels rebelled against Yahweh. The intervention of Yahweh means the final judgment of Satan and his demons by casting them into hell. God is yet to do that and has to command His angels to drive out Satan and his cohorts and they succeeded.
Lucas is wondering what Yahweh was doing all the while this battle was taking place. Please, the reader should note that Lucas comment is not compatible for his own worldview! Let us ask him some questions:
What was Allah doing when the Torah was being corrupted? (Maybe he was busy writing the Zabur)
What was Allah doing when the Zabur was being corrupted? (he was busy writing the Injil)
What was Allah doing when the Injil was undergoing corruption? (oh! Satan has successfully chased Allah from the Jews to the Arabs where Allah sought refuge till he will grow strong enough to protect his last card)
What was Allah doing when the Creedal Trinity was being formulated at the Nicene Council? (you guess it! He was busy distorting our creed in order to refute a strawman argument and save face)
What was Allah doing when the nature of Christ was being defined at the Chalcedonian council? (he was screaming in rage in heaven that he has no son)
After Allah sent his last card to the world, why did he not strike rebellious people down? Oh, he was begging the Muslims to use all sort of tactics even if throwing tons of Islamic sources in flames, just to make sure Islam look presentable and they should resort to violence as the last resort.
I can go on and on with questions like this. At least you can see the reason why Lucas should be an atheist and not a Muslim.
Moreover, Lucas should provide us with the list of the casualties. The Christian heaven will comprise of those who had learned to trust and rely on God in all aspects of their life. It also comprises of those whose love has passed through tests and trials and will never forsake or rebel against God for anything. Since God has defeated all forces of evil by this time, the kingdom of Heaven is not only a safe place but a place of joy and peace. This is unlike a prostitute house filled with men who are hungry for sexual intercourse.”
If this is all Lucas can do to respond to my rebuttals i.e. using his refuted questions to answer my queries, isn’t it obvious that this dawagandist has no business critiquing the Christian faith?
Lastly, Jesus made mention of Mansions in God’s kingdom. What do we have in the mansions? Do spirits need mansions?
Oh my gosh! Is Lucas not the slow-witted reader? Who is talking about spirits here? Are we not referring to the saints living in glorified bodies? How does that make them spirits?
Second, I disagree with the KJV rendering of the Greek word as “mansions”. The Greek word “monai” actually means “an abiding, an abode” and it does not have to mean mansions. For the Strong’s Concordance, readers can consult here.
After singing, jumping, twerking, twisting, rolling on earth in the name of praise and worship, you go to paradise to do same. Funny enough, you mock Muslims of hitting their head on the floor to worship but after going through the book of revelations, we discovered that what you refuse to do on earth is what you would be rewarded with in paradise! Bowing down to God in worship!
I am yet to see one single Muslim apologist prove to Christians why “singing, jumping, twerking, twisting, rolling on earth in the name of praise and worship” is wrong. Even if we fly and perform stunts to praise God, what is that to you? A singer once remarked,
“If creation was made to worship so will I”
Many creatures give glory to God in different ways. The birds of the air, the raging oceans, the trees, animals not only reflect the almighty power of God but also declare his praises – in fact, the leviathan and the behemoth giants are not left out. Dancing, twerking, rolling, jumping are all symptoms of a healthy human being. Is there anything wrong in showing our gratitude to God for giving us our health? Why should such abilities be restricted to exercises only and not be used for God’s glory?
As a matter fact, God is not deceived by body movements. The movements should rather be an expression of a joyful heart that is turned towards the Lord. David danced before and God honored him as a man before His own heart while Michal who mocked David for his joyful display was obviously punished by God.
And who ever told this Abdul that Christians are prohibited from bowing to God? Christians still bow in worship to God. Bowing is an act of submission and God cares more for the submission of the heart than physical bows. The fact is, bowing, singing, dancing, rejoicing, jumping etc. are all allowed as expressions of joyful hearts.
While closing his ‘rebuttal’, Lucas managed to snitch into another of his tirades against the doctrine of the Trinity. He is wondering whether the worship in Heaven was directed to Father, Son or Holy Spirit. I will say that the worship is meant to worship the triune God.
Only three figures did not participate in the worship of the creation and they are
- The One on the Throne (obviously The Father)
- The Lamb (The Son)
- The seven lamps which represent the seven spirits and eyes of God (The Holy Spirit)
These were the figures that bestowed grace upon the believers in the beginning of John’s apocalypse:
“John, to the seven assemblies that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from GOD, WHO IS AND WHO WHO WAS AND WHO IS TO COME; and from the SEVEN SPIRITS who are before his throne; and from JESUS CHRIST, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us, and washed us from our sins by his blood;” Revelations 1:4-5
The Book of revelations recorded instances where sacred worship and devotion was given to Jesus alongside His Father. An example is recorded here:
“I heard every created thing which is in heaven, on the earth, under the earth, on the sea, and everything in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne, AND TO THE LAMB be the blessing, the honor, the glory, and the dominion, forever and ever! Amen!”” Revelations 5:13
For Jesus Himself remarked,
“that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who doesn’t honor the Son doesn’t honor the Father who sent him.” John 5:23
Lucas thinks that the Shema supports his monistic view of God. Let’s not linger over the fact his gangs had written articles meant to align the character of YHWH that Moses and Jesus proclaimed, oh no, let’s not get the touchy feeling about that. Let’s just take a cursory glance at his misinterpretation of the Shema. The Hebrew word “echad” is used as a complex unity several times in the OT. Just because God is one does not means that He is one in the same sense His creatures are one. We’ve been telling these guys to stop creating God in their own simple image.
Now at the point which this article will be brought to an end, shouldn’t it be obvious that “my call for help” to Lucas is for his own good. We will keep asking for his help before it is too late for heaven still helps those who help themselves. Contrary to the impression given by the topic of his article, the actual request should read:
“Lucas, help me by calming down to understand the Christian doctrines and scriptures. If you can do this, at least you will be spared of the embarrassment you keep falling in.”
The Lord is risen.